What Then Say You

Calling Evil Good: How Small Compromises Have Huge Impacts

• Keith & Tunisha Barnes • Season 3 • Episode 4

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What Then Say You?

How hot is the water around us—and have we noticed? We explore the slow drift from holiness through the “boiling frog” lens, then anchor the conversation in Isaiah: our righteousness is from God, not from good vibes, partisan platforms, or polite silence. That single truth reframes everything from church culture to our daily choices, revealing how small, “reasonable” compromises grow into heavy ropes that pull us off course.

We get honest about the difference between Jesus eating with sinners and the modern habit of affirming what he never affirmed. Fear often dresses up as kindness. Tradition poses as wisdom. But when we replace courage with niceness, the gospel loses its edge. We challenge the church-as-business trend—when parishioners become customers and Sunday becomes a product, discipleship takes a back seat. Metrics and branding can’t do what repentance and mutual correction were designed to do.

The heart of our call is intimacy. “I never knew you” isn’t a line for someone else; it’s a warning for anyone content with a surface relationship with Christ. Real fruit only grows from union with the Vine (Jesus Christ). That intimacy fuels discernment in the last days, helps us test fruit rather than hype, and turns fear into bold, tender love. We finish with a practical charge: take inventory, ask where a thread became a rope, and invite the Spirit to cut it. Wake up, stay alert, and let holiness look like daily, Spirit-led obedience that loves people without affirming sin.

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Keith:

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, whatever time it is that you are tuning into the podcast. Today is a wonderful day that the Lord has made. Let us be glad and rejoice in it. Um, hope y'all had uh good holidays. If you celebrate the holidays or whatever, had a good time to meet with your families and friends and all that jazz. And um today, um, yeah, let's get back to the to the real meat of things. Um, and so we can extend extend that holiday meat into some word and uh let it let it digest and hit our everything that it needs to hit. I know that was lame, right? Super lame. Anyway, um, but no, seriously though. I wanted to talk about what? Yeah, I can say that with a clean, straight face and just keep it pushing because you know, if you caught it, you caught it. If you didn't, you didn't. But anyway, no, I wanted to talk about um there's this old anecdotal statement, right? And it's it's like when you how to cook a frog, you know, you put a boiling, you don't put a frog in boiling water because it will just jump straight out, right? And the premise behind that um, you know, antidote or recipe.

Tunisha:

You're gonna slowly turn up the temperature to convince the frog to staying in.

Keith:

Right. Yeah, you can put it in there and it can be cold, and it's just like it's chilling, and as it gets hotter and hotter and hotter, eventually, you know, you got frog leaks, which by the hate, by the way, I do not like frog licks, but to the point of the analogy, the the idea is that it does not realize that it's boiling until it's too late. And I feel like um, you know, in our modern culture, right, we've gotten to this place to where the water is is the temperature is rising, right? And believe it or not, we already might be at the point prior to boiling. Just some of us are asleep in the in the hot water right now. But um, but no, seriously, I feel like in our culture we've we've gone so far from the word and kind of what it talks about, and even you know, having conversation with random people about God and Israel and just basic concepts, you know, the the opinions vary so wide on the spectrum. Like, even if we pick a topic like righteousness or holiness or you know Jesus Christ and Yeshua and what it all means, the church and its establishment. And and what I think is happening, right, is that over time we've allowed small sin to enter into the body, small concepts, right, under the premise, under the guise of it being good, right? Under the guise of it being a good idea, and you know, like if you go back to the 90s, the what would Jesus do, you know, wristband that you would have. And it was just like, yeah, Jesus, he would do that, you know, and that sounds good. And so we allow it in, and then next thing you know, you know, we're we're in this space to where the church literally looks like any other business in the world. You know, um, the message is is more of a motivational life coaching methodology than it is about holiness and righteousness and and like being held accountable, you know, the basic things that are in the word. And I wanted to start off in Isaiah.

Tunisha:

Can I just I know I don't even know where you're going yet. I just fine. You said something about people doing things because it was good. Yeah, right? And the verse that came to me, because I heard it a few days ago when I was listening to something, but the verse that came to me was Isaiah 54, 17, and everybody knows the verse, right?

Keith:

This is about to get real like.

Tunisha:

And it says, because y'all know it because y'all use it for a whole bunch of reasons, and you know, and obviously we use it because we should be using it, but I want to read this verse, but I want to hone in on something that it says. It says, No what weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is from me, says the Lord. The the part that is very powerful, and I like to use verses that we often use all the time. Yeah, that most of the time you don't have to say, Where'd you find that at? You've heard it so many times.

Keith:

T-shirts everywhere. Yeah, right?

Tunisha:

You've heard it so many times, or people are quoting it all the time. And I'm the one who likes to say a verse, like I'll quote John 3.16. I say, Did you read the next part? Yeah. Um, I like to quote the verse, but then say, Did you really listen to what it said? The very end of it says that the heritage of the servants of the Lord and their righteousness is from who? Me. That was God. Their righteousness is from me. We can't compare our righteousness to the world's righteousness. We can't say what I'm doing is is in right standing with what the world says. Yeah. No, we have to say what I'm doing is in right standing with what God says.

Keith:

Yes.

Tunisha:

And I think when you said that, because I know we're about to go wherever we're going, but I was like, let's just make sure that this is clear before we go forward.

Keith:

I love that you bring that up because you know, if if y'all don't know this about us, um, there's no pregame, there's no like this is what we're gonna talk about, and we're gonna do this thing. I was about to go somewhere at least. No, it's beautiful because guess where I'm at? I'm in Isaiah chapter 5. All right, and we're gonna go through verse 18 down into 20. It says, Woe to those who begin by pulling a tra at transgression with a thread, but end by dragging sin along as if with a cart rope. They say we want God to speed up his work, to hurry it along so we can see it. We want the Holy One of Israel's plan to come true right now so we can be sure of it. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who change darkness into light and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet and sweet into bitter. Woe to those seeing themselves as wise, esteeming themselves as clever. I didn't I didn't tell you I was in Isaiah first.

Tunisha:

I don't know why, but that slip brought tears to my eyes hearing it. Um we're seeing in the world today is that is that like it's y'all don't know how many people we have spoken to over the months, and I wouldn't want to say years, but I'm gonna just use months because recent is more important, right, than the years, because then we say, well, in years we can grow. But over the months, over the most recent times, that are being taken away from the authenticity of this word, from the truth of this word, and literally doing just this, literally like it's already here, you know, it's already happened. We're ready, it's it's this is exactly what we're supposed to be doing. This is exactly what this is about, or it's not about that, it's about this, you know, and don't get me started on replacement theology, but it's just like it's it's so concerning for me because I think if you don't, if you don't truly love God, you don't love people.

Keith:

Right, that's true.

Tunisha:

And I think a lot of people say, well, I love, you know, and it's just like going back to his righteousness is his, so is his love. And it's like a lot of a lot of us are walking around like, oh, I love him, I love this person, I love this person. This is why I'm here, you know, literally calling evil good, literally saying it's okay that you sin like that. Jesus did not compromise with sin.

Keith:

Yeah, that is true.

Tunisha:

Like Yeshua had no place for sin. Well, Nisha, he sat with the sinners. You you hear that? He did. But did he sin?

Keith:

Yeah, did he agree with what we're doing is is great and fine and dead.

Tunisha:

That that is not we see Jesus coming to a dark world and go into the per the places that people had need of him, which are people gonna usually be in their sin. Yeah, you know, but you never saw him say, Oh, well, it's okay. I got it's all right. He if that were the case, he said, if I did not speak, then they would not have sinned.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

But because I speak, they have sinned. Okay, if if that's the same Yeshua that said that in the word, then that's the same Yeshua that's saying that today there was no compromise. Yeah, it was because he spoke. It is it's the same reason why we're supposed to give the gospel, it's the same reason why we're supposed to tell the truth about God's love and his salvation. It's because of those things that now they are clearly evident that they have sinned. Yeah, and they have need of him.

Keith:

Yeah. And and this is what the main point of the conversation today is all about, right? Like pointing it out, right? Because if if nobody's saying it and everybody's just going with the motions, then you know, that's that's on me. That's on you. That's on every believer that is accepted Yeshua the Messiah as Lord and Savior over their life. If they're not going and being obedient to the Holy Spirit and calling things out and saying it like it is by way of the Holy Spirit, the blood is on our hands too. We're guilty of seeing but not correcting, seeing but not holding accountable, and just you know, and so in verse 18, again, it just says, Woe to those who begin by pulling at transgression with a thread. I just want to pause there because it ties into that the the frog in the water concept again. You know, when we when we look out amongst our own lives, um amongst the the church, amongst um our country, the transgression at a at a thread. It's it's interesting to me the things that we fight for and the things that we don't as believers, right? Like, and and I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start here, but then I'm gonna work our way all the way from you know out to in.

Tunisha:

Don't hit them too hard though, because we don't need to explain why you hit hard.

Keith:

So Okay. So I'll use a topic like, you know, um, we have this base called evangelicals, right? Every time there's an electoral electoral time in our country, it's you have this base of evangelicals. Evangelicals means those that believe in Jesus Christ and and they're voting based off of having that voice heard.

Tunisha:

I just said don't hit them hard, and you went right to the heart.

Keith:

Because you got to. Like I'm I just said literally.

Tunisha:

I already knew you were gonna say it. I knew you were gonna hear it. Go ahead.

Keith:

So you have evangelicals, right? And ultimately, the the whole purpose, right? We're in a petri dish of people. Everybody got their different beliefs, but the Christians have a voice, and it's represented by believers when they when they vote, right? And and they have different agendas and so on and so forth, right? And so uh one of the big ones, obviously, is like abortion. Like, hey, God hates abortion, you know, and so we want to vote for a president that is going to ban abortion, right? And it and it stops there. Like I've never seen a platform that we want to ban pornography, that we want to ban um sex trafficking, like it's you know, because we say it's free speech. Well, it think about that though, like it's free speech.

Tunisha:

It goes back to what I said earlier. Why do Yeshua sit with sinners? Right? And then why then did he also say correct sin? So here's here's what I like to say. We have to bring be the light to a dark world, right? That's that's inevitable. We have to be the light, right? But that doesn't mean the dark world has already received and accepted the light. Truth. Okay. So then I had to sit with the sinner, right? I have to be able to be amongst the sinners in this world. Paul says we don't deal with the matters outside the church, right? And we deal so when I'm talking about calling evil, you know, good, evil, and evil good, or when I'm talking about what's happening here, woe to these people who are doing these things, I am talking about the people who say they are a part of this body, same way he was dealing with people who are part of this body when he dealt with sin. So what you're talking about, you know, and you're like, man, we're not even hitting the level of the other sin. Well, that's that's because it's a pick-choose society, right? It's like we're not gonna hit the level of those things because those things aren't as important. It's not until something else gets important enough that we say, okay, now that. See, here's the fun the fun fact: nobody likes woke, right? But then we get woke about the things that we say are unblick unbiblical and political.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

It's it it doesn't make sense because you're being just as woke as the people you say are woke. But just on the other end of the spectrum. Just on the other end of the spectrum. It's always existed.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

Okay? Now, the thing is, because we get the platform to say because it exists, we want to eliminate it, then we're all concerned about it. My question is, where were you when you didn't have the platform? When you when you when you did not have that place, were you going into the dark places? Yeah. Were you going into those areas where these people are and dealing with those things? Truth. You know, are you dealing with your children when they watch what they watch on TV? Are you dealing like, don't try to sit there and say, oh, this is bad, this is bad, and then miss the thing that is bad because one of two things is happening. It could be hypocritical, you could just be doing the thing. Why would we want to out that? Because if we out that, then we can't have that, you know.

Keith:

And that's and that's where I was tying into, right? So the evangelicals that I'm calling out, right? Meaning voting believers. We have to then ask ourselves those questions, right? But then what do we say when it comes to free speech? We want to protect the ability to say what we want and do what we want, but then, like again, beginning by pulling at transgression with a thread. Because in free speech, I'm saying I can say whatever I want and ain't nothing you can do about it. That had no role.

Tunisha:

I got other people who are gonna support me during this time because the platform is the party for the platform.

Keith:

Right. And so what ends up happening is the hypocrisy comes out. Because in in the duality, right, of free speech flesh, Holy Spirit have your way, you might get Holy Spirit one day and Keith the next day. And that go that's that can look real messed up real quick. Because what ends up happening is, right, I can say, you know, I'm I'm anti-this, but while listening to, you know, some gangster rap. Or I believe. You're epileptic then. Yeah, like I have this thing.

Tunisha:

You the one that Jesus had to cast out because the disciples couldn't cast out. And then they say, Why you couldn't cast that person out? And then he says, They that type go out by prayer and fasting. Yes. Oh, you that person.

Keith:

Yes.

Tunisha:

Okay.

Keith:

And that's what happens when I start off with the thread. Because then that same thread by the end, right? He says, by the end, you're dragging sin along as if it was with a cart rope. A cart versus so a rope and a thread, we can already do the parallel between what one looks like and the other. But the cart thread, the cart rope is much thicker and able to pull thousands and thousands of pounds, so that that allegory, right, of that, you know, imagery that he paints in this word is showing you that it starts as small as just things like freedom of speech, the freedom to be an American citizen, but while also maintaining kingdomship in the Lord, as being an ambassador in Christ while also, you know, having that duality. And and I think to your point, being in this world, because we have to we have to live here, right?

Tunisha:

Because he continued to say, I basically he said, Paul said, I'd be a hermit if I wasn't in the world. Like I'd literally, to avoid the world outside of the church, I'd had to become a hermit. I would literally have to shut myself off from all things that were sinful.

Keith:

And that wouldn't be beneficial either, right?

Tunisha:

Because then you can't be the light.

Keith:

So you have the dilemma of being in this world, but not of it, but having to deal with it without having a dualistic nature of being flesh and spirit and having contradictions in your life and your speech and how you do things. And so, yeah, that's the reality. So when I start at the top from the macro, evangelical voters, believers who are putting people in office, it should be spirit all the time. Even when you're voting, even when you're saying, you know, when you're judging the character of a man and you know that they're just trying to vie for your vote, is just like, no, is this individual really about that?

Tunisha:

They're just human too. I think that's the our per our trust is in the Lord, it's not in the person in front of me. That person in front of me may serve me good, may serve me a great place. Like, and I think that's what we need to see it as. Like if if if the if the politician is like, hey, I'm pro something that's biblical, right? Then we see it as an opportunity. We don't see it as, oh yes, they support everything about me. You know, and I think that is because I always tell Keith, I said, you know, when when we always say, oh, you know, you missionaries that go spread the gospel all the time, like, oh, they go to places that spread the gospel all the time. And this and I say to myself, why is it so much different here? And then somebody will say, Well, you have assigned people for that. Maybe that evangelical nation, or you know, you have, you know, but then it's just like, nah, I don't think that's it. I don't think that's it. I think the same fear that's in the other side of the world is the same fear that's on this side of the world. But because we compromise and because we do have these feels, we're just like, well, because I don't want them to be upset with me. I'm afraid to tell that person who he is because they might respond a certain way because you know, the the law is for them right now. Yeah, you know, or the law is so against them right now that they're gonna think that I'm hating, you know, and it's just like that is a fear. Yeah, it it is.

Keith:

It's um and you don't want to you don't want to be a uh social outcast, yeah.

Tunisha:

And or you don't want to stir somebody up, right? Like even like if you look at someone and and the first thing you notice about that person is okay, they're this, right? Because you're judging their outside appearance for whatever reason you're doing that. More than likely, unless you're like a bigot, like you're just trying to be a type of person, you're not gonna say anything. Yeah, you know, you're not gonna even, you know, deal with that person, right? And you're just gonna say, well, that's because I just know they the type. They're the type that's gonna get upset. You is the type. At one point, you too were the type. At one point, you were the person that somebody looked at and said you might just get upset if they tell you about him. You know, and whether that's because your parents put you in the system or church, or whether that's because somewhere by the line, they either way, somehow God reached your type. Just gonna say that. All of us were that at one point, right? That's true. But somewhere along the line, we don't realize why there was so much scripture about fear, so much scripture about why we should not fear, so much scripture about why we need to be courageous, so much scripture about scripture about like all the things that we had to perfect love cast out here. Like the Lord had told me that so many times today. Like, all those things that we had to understand that we cannot comprehend why we were told that so many times. And I'm not gonna be the person that's gonna go through the Bible and tell you how many times that word was spoken, um, because that's irrelevant. You've heard it enough. Um, the point I'm making is why did we hear it so much? Maybe because there was gonna be a place where we were so delusional that we thought that we weren't afraid, we were just being nice, we were just being kind.

Keith:

There it is, you know, and that and that right there, I mean, it's I want to talk about the fear aspect, but I want to talk about that latter portion because it ties into to this whole the the piece, right? Because not to not to sidetrack, going into Mark chapter 7, verse 8, it says, You depart from God's command and hold on to human tradition. Indeed, he said to them, You have made a fine art of departing from God's command in order to keep your tradition. Now, granted, sort of out of context, but to this point, this is one of those that is this is that thread again, right? Like we replace fear with being nice, being politically correct, being kosher amongst people. And so we've redefined it. And so that way fear doesn't have an effect in us, that word, we don't we no longer assume that it's fear. And so now I'm just keeping with the tradition being politically correct. I can't say stuff like that to to somebody. I can't call out because then what about me? Because you know, the word also says that if I judge, then if if I judge you, then I'm gonna be judged by the same measure, and then that means I need to praise God if you're in the spirit, right? And so at the end of the day, though, we this is that lukewarmness that's talked about in Revelations, but more importantly, we're allowing it because it sounds okay. Like to say, if you see somebody in the LGBT community that you know personally and they know you're a Christian, you know they're LGBTQ, y'all never had a conversation about Jesus, I said, right? Like ever. And so what ends up happening is because it's I don't want you to feel like I'm judging you.

Tunisha:

Or agree to disagree.

Keith:

Yeah, and and it's like, well, I don't know how to promote, I don't know how to say it without love. And but if y'all are friends, if you're close and if you know that person, then in love, it can come out without being judged. But the offense taken by Yahshua's name is gonna be there. Now, can you still be friends and know someone and be acquaintance with someone who is in that community? Absolutely, right? Because your life is still lived out. You can sit with, not can not uh uh condone.

Tunisha:

You know, and there's a there's a wisdom about it too. Like I'm not telling y'all go sit down and say Yeshua finally, right now. You know, there is a wisdom that has to be taken lightly. Like is it's a prayer, it's a wisdom. You might have to sit with this person for years and never speak the name of Yeshua a day in your life. Like, we're not always, we're not, what does the Paul say? Some plant, some water, that is on the government. We're not always in the season of where growth is. Yeah. And I think sometimes we're like, well, well, Tanisha said that I got everybody I talk to, I gotta say, Jesus. I gotta correct it, you know, and I gotta fix them. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, man, draw close to the spirit and he'll let you know what to do. But don't be afraid to draw close to the spirit and find out what you're gonna do. Like, that's the fear we have. Yeah, we don't wake up in the morning and say, Lord, I'm up today. Where do I, what do I need to go and how are you gonna show up in my day? Like I was telling Keith, we go to the grocery store looking for the groceries. You know, we go, we go to the bookstore looking for books. Like we're we are not even aware that God literally being sovereign was like, I need you to go to the grocery store for this purpose. You know, we're so focused on that one list. I have a whole list I take with me to the grocery store. We're so focused on fulfilling that list. And there are times where when I'm noticing something, that list is very hard to fulfill. Like, and I guess I'll have to change the recipe when I get home. But either way, I'll miss a few things because I'm I'm aware of someone, you know, and it's not always because I got to say Jesus to this person, but there is a reason why God has us notice people. There's a reason why we have to understand is it prayer, is it a word, is it what is it? Draw on the spirit of God in that moment. Like, because if you don't, you will miss the opportunity to share in the glory of his kingdom. And I think we think that's the fear I say we have. It's not so much as saying his name to somebody. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that either. Get again, like it's God's way. Okay, we had to be obedient, regardless of that. But the fear we have is to even test him and taste to see if he's good. Because it's like, what if he tells me to say something? Yeah. What if he has me pray for this person? What if he he tells me to spend time with them and and and show hospitality and bring them here? And you know, and it's what if he makes me have to be friends with that person for goodness sake? What if I have to dwell with them? And we're in this place where we're doing all these what is and our fears are overtaking us. We're like, no, that's just me being wise, and that's just me trying to make sure I don't add extra stuff to my equation, and I got so much stuff to do, and that's not God, you know, like I'll invite them to church. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And um, yeah, and not saying you should not do that, by the way, but I wouldn't invite anybody to a church if I don't believe the pastor is right either. Because, you know, there's a there's a testing of the fruit in everyone. Yeah. Um either way, but yes, the thing is the we we have a fear.

Keith:

Yeah, no, and we do. And it's again, it's it's um you've been groomed to be this way since the beginning, right? Like you were born into sin, you were raised by the world. Yeah, I mean, it it's it's my thing for the season that we're in because people don't need people need to understand, we all need to get a good grasp on the fact of how much effort society has taken in us. Does that make sense? Like how much effort the world has put into us to being good citizens in the country or good citizens in the world, right? And it's a lot of effort that's been done to teach us the ways of manners and good manners and being polite and being politically correct and saying the right things at the right time and all these things, and then at some point in your life you come to know Christ, and he's like, No, I need full control, and it goes against the very nature of all the things you've you have been taught to do your entire life, and so I just don't want us to to get off track and and and and start missing the facts, like start missing the fact that the temperature's cutting up, right? Like, you could probably look within your church, and and that's where I'm gonna transition to next, but you you can look into your church, you can look into your life, you can look into your environment around you, and and it's it's a good time to take stock of the compromises that we've allowed in our lives, right? And start cutting at that rope. Because I I guarantee you, we're not pulling the thread anymore. It's it's a rope now, right? And so there's a lot of fibers that need to be cut, and they can easily be identified and cut off by the spirit of the Lord. And that's that's the goal here.

Tunisha:

And it begins with the body, it begins with the body. I think that's the you know, love your neighbor as you love yourself, right? Like, okay, great. What was the first powerful thing? Love God with all of my heart, mind, soul, and spirit, right? Second one's just like what? Like, my my love of God will pour out to me for the love of my neighbor. And he literally said, and even more love goes in the body. Like, where we correct sin, where we edify and encourage and all these things is in the body.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

And I think the reason why we don't even do that, because now we got, you know, generals in the body who are like, you can't tell me what to do. You know, like I mean, I some here, somehow along the way, we've forgotten that we are all on the same level. Like, y'all, y'all, I don't care what nobody says. You are not above nobody in the kingdom of God. Jesus literally told us that he's like, we aren't like that. He said, Gentiles have that, but we're not like that. And he was talking about Jews in the moment. He was talking to the Jews. Like, like that's not what happens when you come into the kingdom, right? Like, there's an order for how things have to operate, but it doesn't mean you take precedence. Right. Right? Like the the when Paul talks about the gifts, and then he talks about the body, and then he talks about the body parts, and he says, How much more important is this one? And we need to dress that one up. Like, you know, if you're up there, then humble yourself, Low, because that's where you need to be. You know, and I think the hard part is we got so many people say you can't tell me what to do. You don't know any better. No, but I know the Lord and I have the spirit. And if the spirit is telling me to tell you something, then you and you have the same head and the same spirit is in you, then you should be able to hear. It's not always that somebody is correcting you in the way that you need the correction, you might just need to hear what the spirit of the Lord is saying, and you need to take that to God and fix it. And you can't tell nobody nothing anymore in the body.

Keith:

Like you don't let I want to say, because that that perfect segue, that ties into the to the church establishment, right? Because you got to understand, once it went from you know, fellowship and family to business and corporation, it has to follow the corporation rules in order to make sense. I'm just saying, like, if if you work at a plant, if you work at a restaurant, if you worked anywhere outside of a church, you got a boss, you got managers, you got supervisors, you got employees, and then you have the customer. Okay, and and sadly, a lot of the churches, the parishioner is the customer. And we've come to purchase grace, and we've come to have a great experience in this establishment called Chuck E. Cheese. Okay. No, it's it is what it is. And so the customer is now the parishioner because you gotta think about it. They're coming to buy a couple of things from this church building. They're coming to buy a check off the block that I was att I attended, that I'm a faithful uh member of Costco, and that I've used my little membership card today, and I might get a discount, uh i.e. a blessing that might come down. I might win a raffle prize today at Costco if I show up on Sunday. That's the first thing the customer is doing. The second thing the customer is doing is they might need to purchase individual things for themselves by way of attendance, by way of tithe, by way of an extra giving, by way of whatever the thing might be that the thing is offering, right? But then on the opposite end, because moving beyond the customer. Right.

Tunisha:

And we need to know how many customers we have and how many customers we're losing.

Keith:

Oh, we yes. We got direct. That's why we're moving into the to the manager.

Tunisha:

Disciples. How many disciples do you have and how many are you moving?

Keith:

That's that we're moving, we're transitioning now to the to the staff, to the management of Chuck E. Cheese. Because that manager has a corporate manager, a district manager, a national manager, right? And we need to make sure that this Chuck E. Cheese is doing well, otherwise we might need to shut it down. Okay. But anyway, they have to ensure that the customer is being met. And so if I'm the supervisor or the boss or whatever the case may be, I need to see how many loyalty members I got under my name, right? And it and it's sad, but if it doesn't work that way, I guarantee you you would feel real uncomfortable at your church. If you went to your normal church tomorrow on Sunday and literally pulled in there and it was just like one big family experience, there was not this huge like entertainment setup and so on and so on, it would feel different to you. But it's by design, right? And and the thread that the body pulled was the 501c. The thread that we pulled was saying this is tax deductible. This is a nonprofit organization. You kill me, you hear me? And then it turns into a rope because now you have staff members, now you have multiple pastors, and they all have positions. The customer doesn't go and talk to the manager, to the district manager of Chuck E. Cheese. The customer can't go to Costco today and say, Let me speak to the general manager of this establishment.

Tunisha:

You gotta see him in passing when he's checking on his store. Yeah, maybe no, I'm saying, like, that's kind of how you encounter that when he might be in there just checking on his store today and greet you, and you're like, Oh, who is you? Oh, you up, okay.

Keith:

And even then I got some problems.

Tunisha:

Well, that's let me hear. Okay, I don't'm gonna deal with them.

Keith:

Yes, that's exactly where I was about to go. It's like you you address a GM at Costco, Walmart, wherever, pick a store, and you and you're telling them, like, hey, you know, these aisles are kind of dirty, and y'all never have milk for real. He's gonna say, All right, thank you.

Tunisha:

And if it's not a pressing matter, he may never get to the people who need to deal with it either. And that's the focum of the problem. So we're not against the church building. I I hate for people to think that. Um, we are not against the church building. What we are against is the fact that you guys do know, and I'm gonna just go ahead and say this because I need to say this. This is why I okay, this is I think this is why I got tearied earlier because it is bothering me. You do know we are in the last, right? Like, if y'all aren't hearing that, if y'all aren't saying that, and not for fun and fun either, like, because I know we've been, oh, we've been saying that for years, you know, not for play play, like, for real. And we have a lot of lot of sheep in wolves' clothing in those pool pits today. We got many of them who are about to come in, who are getting ready to be to to get what's the word when you come, I don't know. That is like these little ordination things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, we got me still coming who are coming in, um probably as innocent as all get out about it, right? But about to quickly be taken over because you got that that thing that's above them that's already gonna take over how they operate. Yeah, you know, and the issue that we have is seeing it. It's seeing it. Like, and I think that's something that you have to understand. Yeshua saw it. Yeah like when he was dealing with the Pharisees, he saw it. Like when Paul saw it, Peter saw it. Yeah, I'm I could kiss. John was talking about the daggone anti-Christ spirit, the anti-Messiah spirit already there. Like, and we're talking about this was 2,000 plus years ago. Yeah, if it was already there 2,000 plus years ago, why do you not notice that it's already in your churches? Okay, and so here we are, we're like, oh that that can't be us. We're protected. Okay, you're protected, okay? I understand what you're saying, but you know, you're only protected by the the by the relationship relationship you have with Christ. And I and I don't get why people are like, well, the protection is the fact that I said I believe in him.

Keith:

That's the protection, you know, and so then you didn't get the favorite verse, you know, the the the Satan, the demons believe and they tremble, they they acknowledge.

Tunisha:

I mean, we go clearly to the part when Jesus is talking about the end days, and he clearly says, to the place that even the elect could be deceived, you know, but we'll shorten those days so that don't happen. So if if he's saying even the elect can be deceived, and this is not them, well, this isn't once saved, always saved preaching. That's the Calvinist thing. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. You need to understand what the elect is. You go to your Bible, read it, pay attention, read it again. Even they will be deceived. And if they're deceived, or if they can be deceived, why do you not think the delusion is strong? Yeah, why do you not think the delusion is strong? And for those of you who are calling on the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and saying that he is not the father of Israel, y'all are deluded. Yes. Is that the word? Deluded? I'm saying it wrong. I don't care. Y'all know what I mean.

Keith:

I say confused.

Tunisha:

Yeah, y'all, y'all like y'all are taking over. See, I can't even say the right word for the hypocrisy. Like, it's like it's bad. Because y'all are like, no, that don't even matter no more. Okay, see, that's what we call the anti-Messiah spirit.

Keith:

Like, because you better be gone into anti-Semitism, now you're going into replacement.

Tunisha:

And someone said it, Messiah came from a Jewish womb.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

Like that, you gotta pay attention to what you're saying. Now, am I telling you to be Jewish? Gosh, no. But I am telling you that you are grafted into a Jewish society of people, okay? And I'm not talking about the way you say it, okay? You are grafted into an olive tree, okay? You're grafted into a vine. Okay, and so the root that supports you is that. And so when we get into that place of like, what are you talking about? That's done, that's over. You know, I got I got some things to say about that, but I won't put that here because that would take too long. You know, it's it's it's about understanding where it came from and literally appreciating it. Yeah, okay, literally appreciating it, and then it might take you away from some of the stuff you do because you realize it don't fit into the mode of what you do.

Keith:

Yeah, that tradition. Yeah, right. And so transitioning into the parishioner. I won't call you a customer, I'll call you a believer to the believer. So, you know, when you go macro all the way down, because I can spend hours on evangelicals at the church, but this is just now us. And what you just said was was very, very powerful because it it ties back into the personal relationship that we had with the Messiah. Like, forget the rest. Forget the the the Chuck E. Cheese church that you or Costco church that you had. Forget who's in office, mayor all the way up to presidency. Let's talk about our own internal belief, our own internal um time that we spend reading the word, our own internal time that we spend in prayer, combating the fear that we have to be obedient to God. Forget all of that. The rope we have to now cut is becoming complacent, right? Becoming complacent in our walk for the sake of just pure belief, for the sake of the fact that we go to the Costco on Sunday, for the sake of for the sake of the fact that we have somebody in office that you know is pro-Christian to a point. Um at the end of the day, we're gonna be held accountable for our own actions, right? Like me and you used to talk about this many years ago, um, back when I was a super dirt bag, but it's just like I can't go to heaven and say, Jesus, I cheated on my wife because you know she didn't do X, Y, and Z, and I I did this and I did that, and I killed this person, and I stole this, and I was addicted to these things because of my life circumstances, and so that's why I had he's gonna nobody, I'm not gonna be able to pull anybody up there and say, This is why I did it. It's just gonna be me and him. And then at the end of the day, he gets to say to me, either depart because I never knew you, and he might go down the litany of the reasons how that doesn't make sense, or maybe I will be spending eternity in hell coming to a realization of how none of that stuff made sense. I thought I was gonna get away with that.

Tunisha:

This might not even tie in, but I had to cut in because I had a Bible study with the kids this morning, and this was you were talking about, you know, you're gonna be judged for your own thing. And we were in uh Matthew 7 today, and Jesus was talking about uh, you're gonna say, you cast this out of my name, you prophesied in my name, you know, you did miracles in my name. And I'm gonna say, Depart from me, I never knew you. And so me and my daughter were just joking back and forth, back and forth, you know, and I was like, Well, you know, interesting enough, and I'm I'm not really good with words when I'm talking in the middle of talking. So I was like, you know, you can't have like that relationship with God that surface, right? And then I go, you can't have a platonic relationship with God. And she goes, and she goes, Mom, platonic relationship means like you're this, but you're not having and I was like, Oh yeah, I knew that. And then I was like, I didn't mean to say that. No, wait, I didn't mean to say this. I said, But you have to be intimate with God. Yeah, I said, because if you're not, you won't be at the fruit of the spirit.

Keith:

Yes.

Tunisha:

And I was like, that was the right word. I just thought it was wrong because of what I said, and I was like, oh, you're right. And then when she said it, I said it, and I was like, and she just she laughs, she gives them, and then I'm laughing, oh man, that was wrong. I was like, no, it was right. Like you have to, because what he was saying was, depart from me, I never knew. And this is when we started going. I said it said, knew you. I said, but I said, what does it say in Genesis when Adam and Eve knew each other knew each other? I said, you have to be intimate to bear the fruit. Jesus says literally in John 15, you know, like I am divine, you are the branch. Apart from me, you can bear no fruits. You can do nothing. Okay, you can't you have to be intimate, you have to have this close relationship with him outside of someone over you telling him, telling you about him.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

That I mean, that's good and all. It's nice to have teachers, but we don't know if they're teaching truth. Right. You know, like Paul said, it'll all be tested.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

You know, and we have it's nice to have, you know, people who can share their knowledge. But let me tell you something, people got lots of knowledge, no wisdom now. Like, if you don't have wisdom with the knowledge, you might just be very intellectual. And so the thing is, it's like we don't get the understanding of God without being intimate with God.

Keith:

Yeah.

Tunisha:

You know, I don't know. Sorry, you said that and I didn't wait.

Keith:

No, I'm glad, I'm glad because as you were saying it, because I I think I asked you about Bible study, but you didn't go there with it today. So I'm not sure.

Tunisha:

Because I was gonna break it. I didn't know it. But if you said, well, we had a funny today.

Keith:

No, but that was that's so accurate, right? And I think to you all, the listener, right, because that hit, do you have a Bhutanic relationship with the Lord expecting, you know, inheritance like a wife or or a husband? Do you do you have a friendship? Are you in the friend zone with Jesus? You know, and forever friend zone, because you never want to cross that that gap, right? And like you put yourself there. Jesus is not the one, you put him in the friend zone by the way of your actions and by the way of of of assuming the tradition of man and taking that more importantly than you did God's promise. You know, and so it's not I think the hardest, the hardest reality that we have to face, right? And this is just a hundred no fluff. If you're not reading, if you're not praying, if you're not doing this by yourself of your own fruition, but that's outside of the church, outside of a friend, then you are lacking in your relationship with the Lord.

Tunisha:

And then you are over the person who's not reading and not praying, and you're not telling them they should be doing other things, and you're not telling them they should be repenting, you're not telling them they should be changing their life and doing the right thing to show that the holiness is in them and not calling them to a place of holiness, you too are doing your wrong.

Keith:

Yes. You too. And so wake up, be woke for the Lord for real, for real, in the in the right way, I guess. I don't know. I I'm I'm not good with the woke.

Tunisha:

I don't even know what it means for real.

Keith:

But either way, no, we need to we do really do need to to get it together because as you mentioned earlier, we're in a season right now towards the end, and it is easy to be deceived, it's easy to be comfortable with the traditions that we have because it feels good, because it sounds good, it sounds nice, it sounds like something Jesus would do, but it's just that 99% is important because like I tell my children all the time, I I teach you these things, I tell you to do these things because you need to be aware.

Tunisha:

Like you need to be aware of false teachers, you need to be aware of false prophets, you need to be aware of false anything that's out there. Um, in their time, there were false apostles. I won't give you the rest of why I say it like that. The point I make it is you need to be aware and know it for yourself because even Yeshua said, know them by their fruits, know them by their love. You ain't testing miracles, doc. No, yeah, you're not texting, you're not testing miracles. I it's so many people, well, this is what they're doing, and this is what they do, and then look at their life. They have this. It's like you're testing these tangible things, these miracles, and my like my daughter said this morning when we were talking about, you know, just having things and just like you know, having and she was like, Well, she I can't even remember how she said it, but she was like, They're making people underneath them want the things, and I was like, See, how are you so young and so wise? Like, not that she is, it was just she was saying some great stuff this morning, and I was like, Yes, yeah, yes, like you you're getting to these places where you see these people over you, and they have no problem yoking you back into bondage.

Keith:

Yeah, I was gonna go on first Corinthians or Galatians 5, but go explore the word for yourself because that was the cheat code. Go look in 1 Corinthians and Galatians 5 and and see kind of what we're talking about in this in this thought process. But we've given you a blueprint, things to start looking for. If anything, if you made it this far in the video, uh as we're about to conclude, you know, like, share, subscribe, whatever the thing might be. But in this blueprint, start being on the lookout, right? And maybe that's the thing, right? Because when you get so complacent with your surroundings, you no longer start to like realize things are off. Ask the Lord to literally open your eyes so that you can see the you said woke, but let's use it properly, the way Jesus uses it. Wake up.

Tunisha:

He says, Stay awake, be alert, be mindful.

Keith:

Arise, old sleeper in the old testament.

Tunisha:

Lest you be deceived, is what he says. Yes, lest you be deceived. That's the type of wake you need to be.

Keith:

Yes.

Tunisha:

Like that let's wake up like day, okay? That's the wake. Let's that's woke for us.

Keith:

Yes, there we go.

Tunisha:

Okay.

Keith:

All right. Well, until next time, y'all be blessed. Y'all have a great and wonderful week, and we love y'all. See ya.